Very heavy heart - WWYD? - (sorry it got so long!)

[mariewilcox]

I know that I don't really "know" any of you that well, but I really just need to talk this out and see if anyone here has been in this position at all in some way and can offer any advice.

My closest friend is dying from end-stage renal disease. What is even worse is that she has 2 daughters, ages 8 and 11. She has been divorced for several years, and when she has hospital admissions they live with their father, whom I am still friends with (we were all good friends when they were married). Anyway, she's been in a coma for a week now and was having seizures for several days straight. Now she's started coming out of the coma but is unreponsive except for being curled up in a ball and rocking and crying on and off. It seems she knows when someone is in the room (her mother, me, another close friend), but she hasn't spoken a word since coming out of the coma. The doctors have no idea if she's going to pull through this or not. She's been in the hospital 3 times in the past 2 months (for 1-2 weeks each time) - heart attack, congestive heart failure, etc. Her body is shutting down in stages.

Now for the hardest part - and where I am at a loss as to what to do. The youngest daughter keeps asking if her mother is dead. The older one is just plain angry at her mother for being sick, etc. Their father is trying to decide if he should take them in to see their mother. He asked what I thought and we see both sides of the coin here - my gut reaction was no way should they see their mother in this state. But then the more I think about it, I think they might be more traumatized if they're just told one day that she's gone and they never got to see her. If they do go up, their father and I will try to prepare them and be honest about what to expect when they see her. I know it will be scary for them. My daughter (11 and who is very very close to the girls and their mother) said she would want to see me if it were me in this situation... I've told her everything that's going on and she still insists she would want to see me if it were her.

So does anyone have any life experience with this at all? I am heartbroken for these girls, my friend, and the whole situation just sucks.

[Leah]

Aww Marie...what a tough situation. I don't know what would be the right thing to do. It would be awful to see her suffering, but sometimes kids just need to know, right? I pray that whatever decision is made that it will be the best for everyone.

[jessica31876]

My dad died when I was about five. I have no memories of him except him being taken to the hospital by ambulance and my mom telling me and my sisters and brother he would be ok. He never came home. So it was the last image which stuck with me and that was him being taken out by ambulance. It would probably be a similar experience with her children but at the same time I know I would want to see him if I had had the chance and I was only five. Has anyone asked them what they want?

[Kara]

No advice, but hugs and prayers to you.

[nun69]

I am so sorry to hear about your friend, but I am with your daughter and think the girls should see their mom. One day, even if they don't realize it now, they will be glad they did...what if something happens and she doesn't leave the hospital? They will have never had the opportunity to say goodbye{in a snese} ...and if you think that she knows people are in the room then I am sure she would want to see/feel her daughters there...I would ...again so so sorry~

[Jengerbread88]

I'm praying for you, for her, for the family... I wish I had advice to offer. I'm so sorry.

[farrijc]

I think I would leave it up to the girls. I think you are right that it would be very scary for them, but they are old enough to make their own decision. My oldest is 7, and I feel he would understand enough that he should be given the choice in the same situation. That way, at least they feel like they have some control (if very little) over things. It would be awful for them to be bitter down the road if they feel like the decision was made for them and it wasn't what they would have chosen. So sorry that this is the situation you are in

[rach3975]

I'm so sorry! I don't have any experience to draw on, but is there a social worker or other counselor at the hospital you could ask for advice?

[jacinda]

I would let the girls see their mother if that's what they wanted. I would make sure to warn them of what to expect first though, so seeing her curled in a ball and rocking wouldn't be such a shock. I would give them the chance to say goodbye in person.

[brooke22]

I agree with above, I would let them know whats going on and ask them to make their own decision as to whether or not they want to see her.

I know if it were me, later on in life I would regret not being able to say goodbye.

[MandaT]

I'm so sorry you're going through this, I can't imagine being in a position where I had to make these decisions, or at least help with them. So devastating.

I would let them see her. I would definitely prepare them ahead of time & tell them, that she's not going to be the mommy they remember and that she is very sick, and it's important for them to tell her how much they love her, even if she's not responsive to them. Reassure them that she loves them very, very much.

I've had a few different experiences with dying as a young person. In my experience, sometimes people know they are 'shutting down' they sort of wait until everything is at peace, if that makes sense. I spent my granny's last week with her, in the hospital, her body was shutting down. She had emphysema, that went into renal failure, mini-strokes, etc. It was one of the hardest things ever to see, but I wouldn't have spent that week any other way. She was such a special person in my life.

(I know it's not really the same situation, they are young and she is their mother. I was a young adult when I spent time with my granny in the hospital.)

When I was about 12, my ''aunt'' who was also our God-Mother attempted to end her own life, she was found in the midst of it and taken in & put on life support long enough for her loved ones to go say our goodbyes. I can remember that it was so, so hard to see, but important to be able to say our peace.

[AmberK]

A friend of mine who I've known for 5 years online recently passed away from lung cancer. She has 4 girls- 11, 7, 4, and 2 and they were very open with the girls about what what going on with my friend and what to expect when they saw her. She was inpatient hospice for a while but they moved her home about 2 weeks before she finally passed. I know the 11 year old had a hard time dealing with it but the younger kids just climbed in bed with her and loved on her as much as she could handle it. I think once the kids get old enough to really understand what happened they will be grateful to have spent that time with her and to know that they were with her at the end of her life.

[jaylensmom]

My advice would be to take them to the hospital especially if there is a possibility that their mom may know they are there...I say pray about it

[mariewilcox]

Thank you so much ladies for your thoughts on this. I thought about it all night and I do agree that we should ask them about it and that they should see her. They have known that her situation is very serious, but I don't think they fully grasp how grave it is at this point. It's time to be completely honest with them about what's going on - up until this week she has kept rebounding and even surprising the doctors at how she comes back from each hospitalization, which has been good, but in a way hard because it gives the girls hope that she's going to be okay. Last night the nurses said that they've seen the kind of behavior she's showing before, and they think that she's in mourning for herself and for her girls... that she's facing the reality of what's happening to her.

[scrapweaver]

My son's grandmother went into hospital and was in an induced coma when he was about 5 years old. His father had told him that Omah was very sick in hospital. We were separated at this point but talked etc). All my son wanted was to see her. His side of the family did not want me to take him to see his grandmother at all. But I contacted the social worker at the hospital and he met us at the ward and came in with us to see Omah. It turned out to be really positive as my son could see she was not dead (as he feared) and was actually fascinated with all the 'lil tv's' she was hooked up to. The social worker was fantastic. Maybe there is some kind of support like a social worker that you could access to help you and your friend's children ??

HUGS too, just for you

[newfiemountiewife]

Originally Posted by jacinda

I would let the girls see their mother if that's what they wanted. I would make sure to warn them of what to expect first though, so seeing her curled in a ball and rocking wouldn't be such a shock. I would give them the chance to say goodbye in person.

Absolutely agreed. I think they should be able to see her, have some time to hug her if they want, to tell her they love her, to say goodbye. I can't imagine my mom just being GONE one day, and I'm 35, I can't imagine if I were that young how I would feel.

Sending lots of prayers and thoughts to the family.

[sczos911]

I love these ladies here.

Sending lots of love to you and your family.

[julifish]

I'm with the group that says they should see her. And this makes me want to add to my living will that I want my kids to come see me if I'm every incapcitated. I would hate if they never had a chance to say good bye to me or to really understand what was happening. I think the more info (obviously taylored to what the girls can understand and NEED to know) the better. You never know...one of their voices could be the spark her brain needs to start healing itself.

Saying a prayer for you and your friend.

[heathergw]

I have nothing more to add but wanted to give you a big fat (((HUG)))

[emmasmommy]

i'm with heather....(((HUGS)))

[*Celeste*]

i agree with what everyone has said. i would get a social worker involved too.
hugs to you!

[DeepGirl]

Originally Posted by Kara

No advice, but hugs and prayers to you.

Ditto. Never been in such situation and I cannot give a proper advice, but I am sending prayers to you and all her family!

[Sarah8914]

I agree with everyone and i'm so sorry you have to deal with this. the girls seeing her might also give the mom the peace and closure see needs.

[rachaelsscraps]

I agree with letting them see her. She is their mother afterall, and though she's suffering, seeing her children will be good for her too. I hate to say it, but she may be holding on, waiting to see them to say goodbye...
I guess you and their father could wait until she was quiet and relaxed to bring them in, make sure she isn't upset and crying at the time, kwim?
I know if it were me and I was a child, I would want a chance to see her and maybe have to say goodbye. If I were your friend, I'd definitely want to see my babies and hold them again, especially if I thought I would die. I would want a chance to say goodbye to them and to let them say goodbye to me, even though they are young and don't quite understand death yet..

Bug hugs to you though, with such a hard thing to deal with. I hope you're doing okay through it all.

[Gabbina]

I have nothing more to add to what the ladies here said, just wanted to tell you shortly my story.

When I was 14 (and my sis were 10 and 12) my mum had a very bad stroke. We talked to her on the phone, right after school. She was fine, just a little "headache". At 3pm, when she was supposed to come back home from work, she didn't.
We waited, and waited, but she didnt. I don't know why, I knew something was wrong, and cried the whole day.
In the late evening, my dad came home, and told us my mum had a stroke while she was at work, and now was in the hospital. I won't tell you how hard it was, at the beginning. She had many brain surgery, and ended up in a coma. We didn't see her while she was in the coma, only my dad went, once she finally "woke" up, my dad ask me (since I was the older) if I wanted to go see her. He warned me. And I was TERRIFIED. He told me EVERYTHING. That she was lying in bed, couldn't talk at all, half paralyzed, and they didn't know if she understood who were in the room with her. Again, I was terrified, but WANTED to go anyway. I walked in the room, I cried a lot, and she did something unexpected. She reached out his hand to unbotton my jacket, cause it was too hot in the room, and cried a lot. That was the hardest day of my life, but we didn't know if she was going to make it, and I wanted to see her. I need to add my mummy was lucky, she survived the coma, the illness, the paralysis. She's now perfectly healthy, even if doesn't remember much about those months. I do.
Sorry it got so long, felt like telling my story.


In short, explain the girls EVERYTHING. And bring them see their mum.
Sending lots of love to you and your family.

[AmyG]

My Mother died of lung cancer 2 years ago this month, in the hospital for several weeks and was at home with hospice for about 8 hours before passing away there. I took my kids to see her every day. My daughter was 2, and would crawl in bed with her and just let my Mom love on her. My son was 10. How she would light up when her only grandchildren came to visit!

My Mom was totally functioning at first, just went in for dehydration, and it snowballed until she was unable to communicate and had that awful tube suctioning fluid from her lungs. The last thing we said to each other was "I love you", same with my kids. That alone made it all worth it. Seeing her slowly die was awful but if it were ME I would want my family, especially my kids, to at least have a chance to say goodbye.

[MamaBee]

I have not experience with this... but I asked my hubby but after 27 years he doesn't remember - he's mom died of cancer when he was 10 and his brother was 6.5 yr. I know he told me that they would visit her in the nursing home - but she also went very fast once they discovered the cancer and they weren't there at the very end.

I really think you have to go with what the girls want to do... and don't push them to see them if they don't want to. Everyone is different and it will be a total shock for them to see her in that condition and they may carry that image with them for the rest of their life and not the good times.

{{hugs}}

[origami]

Originally Posted by rachaelsscraps

I agree with letting them see her. She is their mother afterall, and though she's suffering, seeing her children will be good for her too. I hate to say it, but she may be holding on, waiting to see them to say goodbye...

This is what I was thinking too.

Prayers for you and for your friend and her family. This will be hard for the girls, but I think it's going to be difficult no matter what.

[Laurarae13]

How very sad for you and her poor children. It broke my heart when you said the nurses believe she is mourning her passing and loss of her children I would agree,as a mother, that she needs to see her children, to hear their voices. It might be scary for the kids, how she is acting, but she is still their mother and she is still alive for them to visit.

[d2vasquez]

I am sending prayers your way and am with those who say if the daughters want to see their mom, they should be allowed to do so. She may be waiting to say goodbye to them and they may need to do so in their own ways. When my father was in the last stages of dying, we made the decision not to let my 10-year old see him since my father wishes were to have his grandchildren "remember" him the way they last saw him.

Unfortunately, our 10 yr did not share this thought and often cries that she did not get a chance to say "goodbye to her grandpa." She was the only grandchild we let speak at the funeral and in her speech she spoke about how she felt not saying her goodbyes properly and showed everyone the hospital band she wore for days waiting and hoping she could go see her grandpa.

[Amy Carey]

personally, (and I haven't read any other responses) it was hard to watch my Daddy die and I was 36. BUT it is an experience I wouldn't give anything in this world for. And my children are very upset with me at times for shielding them from it, and that was just their granddad. If I had it to do again I would have let them see him, and I do believe if I were in that situation I would want to see my mama. Everyone handles things differently though. My sister didn't want to see any of it or be there for any of it (she was though). And when we thought my brother was dying back in June she didn't want to come see him "that way". Death is a part of life, it's a natural thing, though a horrible thing. But really I think it would be hard for any of us to give suggestions, because it really depends on the child, their maturity level, their processing of their emotions, etc.

[mariewilcox]

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for sharing your stories and for your prayers, hugs, and positive thoughts. When I went up to the hospital late this morning, I was met with my friend sitting up in bed dozing but as soon as I said her name she opened her eyes and smiled at me. She isn't out of the woods and will still be facing dying down the road, but it looks like it won't be this week. Her girls did decide that they wanted to go, both didn't hesitate but thankfully she was able to whisper to them and respond to them. I'm glad that she will have a bit more time to spend with the girls and prepare them more for life without her, however long that time might be. Everyone is amazed at the turnaround she made last night, so we'll take this time and be thankful.

[origami]

What a blessing that she was able to whisper some words to them.