at wit's end, need advice...

[MamaBee]

my son, who is 4.5 yr old, will not BM in the toilet... and I just don't know what to do anymore. I swear we have tried everything... he finally got potty trained in August and it only took about week to get to no accident spot, for potty... but poop is just another story. Even as a baby, he could careless if his diaper is wet/poop... and he is still that way today. I catch him going and tell him to go to the toilet and he will buck me at every turn until it's too late... we know he can do it - it has done it once before and we threw just short of a party, praising him and giving him a toy car... he called the grandparents and they told him how proud they are of him... But that was one time... he just refuses to go poop in the toilet... he even a battle to get him to sit down on the toilet (he potty's standing up - his choice, not how he was trained). We have done yelling, timeouts, talking to him about it, taking things away, bribing, and not saying anything... nothing is working... but I'm about to loose it...

any ideas?

[cardinalskate]

Oh, how frustrating!! I don't have any advice, but I just wanted to offer a (((hug))) and a hang in there! You know he won't be pooping his pants when he's 10, so he'll get there eventually.

[heathergw]

have you tried just having him be naked all day or until he goes?

[sprauncey1]

I feel for ya girl! Mine did the same thing (well he was 3.5 going on 4 and I wanted to beat my head on a wall). I don't know if it was right or wrong or cruel, but I MADE HIM SIT THERE, kicking and screaming. I knew it was about "time" for him to go and I told him that we would spend the entire day on the potty until he did. He sat there for 3 hours but eventually went. Next day...same thing. Next day a little less. By the 5th day he finally went soon after he sat down. Then finally after like 2 weeks he started going in on his own.

He's stubborn, but so am I! But its hard and it consumed us for two weeks! And I know some would say he would be scarred from the potty forever. Doesn't seem to be now (5). I did let him read books on the potty to pass the time. And lots of praise and a special dinner when he FINALLY did go.

So don't know if it helps at all but at least I can send a virtual hug from another mom with a stubborn boy!

[MamaBee]

Kate - thanks, yeah, hubby told Jake that if he isn't trained by 16, he isn't going to get to borrow the car.

Heather - no, I haven't tried him going full naked... he would freak not having clothes on, I would have to hide all his clothes and blankets...

[MamaBee]

Originally Posted by sprauncey1

I feel for ya girl! Mine did the same thing (well he was 3.5 going on 4 and I wanted to beat my head on a wall). I don't know if it was right or wrong or cruel, but I MADE HIM SIT THERE, kicking and screaming. I knew it was about "time" for him to go and I told him that we would spend the entire day on the potty until he did. He sat there for 3 hours but eventually went. Next day...same thing. Next day a little less. By the 5th day he finally went soon after he sat down. Then finally after like 2 weeks he started going in on his own.

He's stubborn, but so am I! But its hard and it consumed us for two weeks! And I know some would say he would be scarred from the potty forever. Doesn't seem to be now (5). I did let him read books on the potty to pass the time. And lots of praise and a special dinner when he FINALLY did go.

So don't know if it helps at all but at least I can send a virtual hug from another mom with a stubborn boy!

This thought had gone through my mind... I've made him sit there for like 20 min - hoping he would think that it would take shorter time to just go instead of knowing that if he had an accident, he would be sitting there a lot longer... then I would hear my dad saying that my grandma would leave him on the toilet almost all day long because she was forgot about him and was chasing after 2 younger siblings all day... and to this day, my dad is very shy (not sure that is the right word) about the bathroom and it takes him a long time to go... however, if you son doesn't have the same views about the toilet... it might work with Jake. thanks for the idea.

[Libby Pritchett]

When my dd was little, she would HOLD it and not go at all. She didn't want to go in her pants, but she had issues with going on the toilet. So she'd go DAYS without going, and she'd be in pain. I even took her to the doctor at one point just to get some advice cause I was beyond frustrated.

Her doctor ended up recommending using glycerin suppositories which made it so that she'd HAVE to go (this was only after she was backed up and in pain for days on end). We called that the "poopy medicine." And when she wouldn't go, I'd tell her that had to go in the toilet or we'd have to do the poopy medicine. We only had to do it a couple of times (and I'll admit I cried). She HATED it. But it broke her of holding it. Within a very short time, she was regular, and it was no big deal for her to go on the toilet.

I realize that's a slightly different scenario than what you have, but I guess I said all that to say that I know how frustrating it can be!! *HUGS*

[CA Dreamer]

Ugh... we were there too!!! Are you trying to get him pooping in the toilet or a potty? At 4.5, I would go stratight to the toilet. No sense having 2 transitions.... Does he have a little step stool to put his feet on? This helped for us with DS1, so we just made sure DS2 had one.

If this has come to a sticking point with him, you could back off for a month or so and then get back to it later. You don't want it to be a test of wills.

Here is what we did with DS2... we bought a big box of diapers(the big one at Target) and told him that this was his last box. We kept the box in his room where he could see how many were left. He started to go sometimes on the toilet and sometimes in a diaper - trying to make the diapers last longer, I think(LOL). When they were gone, they were gone and that was it.

Good luck. I know it isn't the most fun right now.

[lhaslem]

i'd try naked too...that's how I trained my little guy - we didn't have the same poop hesitance, but he didn't want to go on the floor or all over himself...took about a day. good luck!

[SmallMoments]

When we were training Luke I had read somewhere that kids, but boys especially, think they're losing a part of themselves when they poop? I don't know. But it's scary for them, sometimes, apparently. And the article suggested explaining what poop is & then when they do go int he toilet have a "happy good bye party" where everyone is happy and you wave at the poop as it's flushed down the toilet. I know it sounds weird but it totally worked for Luke.

Good luck! I don't envy you!

[MamaBee]

Originally Posted by Libby Pritchett

When my dd was little, she would HOLD it and not go at all. She didn't want to go in her pants, but she had issues with going on the toilet. So she'd go DAYS without going, and she'd be in pain. I even took her to the doctor at one point just to get some advice cause I was beyond frustrated.

Her doctor ended up recommending using glycerin suppositories which made it so that she'd HAVE to go (this was only after she was backed up and in pain for days on end). We called that the "poopy medicine." And when she wouldn't go, I'd tell her that had to go in the toilet or we'd have to do the poopy medicine. We only had to do it a couple of times (and I'll admit I cried). She HATED it. But it broke her of holding it. Within a very short time, she was regular, and it was no big deal for her to go on the toilet.

I realize that's a slightly different scenario than what you have, but I guess I said all that to say that I know how frustrating it can be!! *HUGS*

This is my fear, that he would hold it in if I go too "extreme"... he got constipated earlier this year and had the massive clean out of 2011... he knows that constipated doesn't feel good... and he makes sure he gets is miralax everyday - asks for it along with his multivitamin... he goes 3-4 times a day... a small amount at a time. So on one level, it's like he doesn't understand to "hold" it... on the other, he isn't afraid of letting it go...

[ChristyHC]

I would go with the all or nothing advice you've been given. Either completely lay off or make him sit until he goes even if it takes hours. The step stool might help too. Whatever you try I'd give yourself a full month of trying it before you give up. And you will probably want to mark the calendar for the start date because I bet it will feel like a month after a week or two. lol

[MamaBee]

Originally Posted by CA Dreamer

Ugh... we were there too!!! Are you trying to get him pooping in the toilet or a potty? At 4.5, I would go stratight to the toilet. No sense having 2 transitions.... Does he have a little step stool to put his feet on? This helped for us with DS1, so we just made sure DS2 had one.

If this has come to a sticking point with him, you could back off for a month or so and then get back to it later. You don't want it to be a test of wills.

Here is what we did with DS2... we bought a big box of diapers(the big one at Target) and told him that this was his last box. We kept the box in his room where he could see how many were left. He started to go sometimes on the toilet and sometimes in a diaper - trying to make the diapers last longer, I think(LOL). When they were gone, they were gone and that was it.

Good luck. I know it isn't the most fun right now.

We have been with the toilet from the get go - wouldn't have anything to do with the potty... didn't want anything with the toilet, so we went and got the expensive Cars potty that had a stick shift "flusher"... And yes, he has a step stool... our toilets are a bit on the high side, so he needs a step stool to get up.

*sigh* I we've done the last of the diapers back in September - and he is in underwear... which the whole scooping out the results 3-4 times a day is getting so old...

I think you are right - we are at a battle of wills right now... lets face it... he takes after his mama at being stubborn.

[Sharon Kay]

Originally Posted by sprauncey1

I feel for ya girl! Mine did the same thing (well he was 3.5 going on 4 and I wanted to beat my head on a wall). I don't know if it was right or wrong or cruel, but I MADE HIM SIT THERE, kicking and screaming. I knew it was about "time" for him to go and I told him that we would spend the entire day on the potty until he did. He sat there for 3 hours but eventually went. Next day...same thing. Next day a little less. By the 5th day he finally went soon after he sat down. Then finally after like 2 weeks he started going in on his own.

He's stubborn, but so am I! But its hard and it consumed us for two weeks! And I know some would say he would be scarred from the potty forever. Doesn't seem to be now (5). I did let him read books on the potty to pass the time. And lots of praise and a special dinner when he FINALLY did go.

So don't know if it helps at all but at least I can send a virtual hug from another mom with a stubborn boy!

Home of 3 boys ... I recommend the same thing as above ... HOWEVER I have NEVER allowed them to stand up ... in my opinion it's not a urinal it's a potty so you sit. Period. No discussion. You want to stand ... go find a urinal...so never had to wipe up stray YKW. ;-)

[Kenzi]

I feel your pain! I just went through all of this with my 3 year old DS. I think I even posted a thread because everything was going wrong for me that week. He has finally gotten it down and is doing great. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I told my DS that when he poops his pants the only way to get it off his bum is with a cold bath. Nothing mean just stick him in the tub and rinse his little tush off with cold water. I explained that the wipes only work for babies. It sounds a little cruel and I felt bad doing it, but it worked for him. There was no yelling or belittling him for pooping his pants, but no luxury of soft wipes or warm water.
Also I made him plain old white training undies until he had no accidents and then he got to wear spiderman undies :thumb up: We had a sticker reward system and then after a few days of no accidents he went to the store with me and picked out an action figure.
I read a blog or something somewhere where the parents bought diapers that looked exactly the same as the ones their child wore, but in a much smaller size, and then swapped them so the child though he had out grown the diapers.
And just so you know you are not alone...my cousin refused to poop in the toilet until she was 6. She wore underwear all the time, but asked her mom for a diaper when she needed to poop The crazy thing is my aunt just let her do it! Eventually she decided it was ok to go in the toilet lol

[misfitinmn]

Oh big, huge hugs Rebecca!! I found the whole potty training thing to be a nightmare! We trained Ben in February, he was good for like 3 weeks, and then just stopped altogether. So back to diapers we went. Then we did again in July and so far that time has stuck but he did struggle with the poops. We have a very BOY of a boy, so what worked for him was one day when my mom had him, he was pooping on the potty and she was exclaiming about the plop plop sound it made...he thought that was HILARIOUS and then he wanted to keep going on the potty to hear that sound.

I hope you find something that works for you soon because I know how frustrating it can be to have to clean that up all the time!

[gchristyng]

I am so sorry! Your post reminded me of a post by Ashley from Make It and
Love it had earlier in the month called Potty Training Almost Sent me to Therapy. I thought it was very cute and loved that her husband took over the potty training. Doesn't that sound awesome??!!

Here's the link:
http://www.makeit-loveit.com/2011/10...o-therapy.html

[AmberK]

I printed a reward sheet from Chuck E Cheese's website and told them that they would get to go to CEC and get some free tokens once they learned to go int he potty. It took my youngest FOREVER to poop on the potty but once he finally did he got to go to CEC. Then we did it again for night time potty training.

[JulieB146]

This isn't a story about my son, but I know someone online whose daughter had immense bathroom issues. After years of problems of her daughter crying and having fits and so forth about the bathroom, she finally discovered that the kindergarten that her daughter had went to had a *light* in the bathroom that went on when the kids went in the bathroom, and then went off after a minute or two. Her daughter somehow started thinking and connecting the light going out with how fast she had to go to the bathroom.

Her issues were *horrible* and as far as I know, she's still getting over them, although it's not as bad as it used to be.

I guess my point is, could his issue be school bathroom related, possibly?


EDITED TO ADD:
You know, my son did have a poop problem-until we realized he was afraid of falling into the toilet-which he did in fact do. He was much smaller than the rim. So we got him a soft kid-sized cover that fit over the seat and he was fine with the pooping over that big bowl of water.

[momtutu]

My DS had the same problem when he was little so here's what I did...

I went to the dollar store and bought several little "prizes". I wrapped each one up and I would put one on the tank of the potty so every time he went to the potty he would see it sitting there. He was not allowed to open it because it was a "special prize" for little boys who pooped in the potty. Guess who pooped in the potty?

I then put the next "prize" on the tank so he would see it every time he went potty until he pooped again. So on and so on.

I think we only went through about 4 prizes and he had it down.

No yelling, no screaming, no cold baths, no sitting on the potty for hours. Bribery at it's finest.

Good luck!

[rach3975]

It does sound like he's afraid of sitting on the toilet. What does he say about it?

If that's the case, even if you've tried the small seat on top of the toilet, some of them don't seem very secure and he may still have felt like he was going to fall in or off. The best one we've used is this Bemis one. It replaces your regular toilet seat, so it's just as secure and stores inside the seat cover when adults use the toilet. One word of caution--on some toilets (including ours) the bulk of this seat makes it not stay up as well as regular seats when boys stand and put the entire seat up. Normally I don't recommend it to people because of that, but in your situation it might be worth it.

Other than that, no suggestions but LOTS of hugs and sympathy. My middle DS is a 5 year old kindergartener, and we're still working on toilet training!!!! He has special needs that make it harder, but we're still beyond frustrated with it. He wears underwear and stays dry most days, but only with a lot of work and clock watching on the part of all the adults around him. It's been more than a year and a half of working hard on it with him, and sometimes I really do think he's going to go to high school with a pull up in his bag just in case!

[*Celeste*]

this is going to sound horrible but it worked for us.
ds#1 went poop on the potty a few times then he started going in his pants. at first we threw away the underwear. he didn't like seeing the nemo underwear go in the trash. after three or four underwear throw aways he wasn't as upset. so the next time he pooped i made him stand in the bathtub and take off his underwear the poop fell in the tub. then i had him pick up the poop with toilet paper and put it in the toilet. then i gave him wipes and had him clean himself up. then of course we scrubbed his hands and i made him take a shower. i told him if he pooped in his pants he would have to do this every time. he never pooped in his pants again. sounds mean but it worked.

[carriesmom]

Sounds like the power struggle we had with DD1. She simply refused to go poop. We had pee-trained her months before and even had night trained (which was surprisingly easy!) and we tried everything. We bribed with prizes and "treasure", Grandma and Paw Paw promised a pretty dress and a toy. We told her that she couldn't go to preschool with her friends because she wasn't trained (which was true). We tried keeping her on the toilet and she fell asleep. The thing that finally worked was so crazy simple, it still shocks me that it worked. We told her at the birthday party for her (it was two weeks early) that now that she was 4 she was a big girl and she needed to poop in the toilet and not act like a baby and poop in her panties. And we have not had a accident since. She just said okay and we have been cool.

Not sure if that helps but that is what we did.

[MamaBee]

All great suggestions!! Thanks!!

Jake does have a potty seat for the toilet that he uses... we even have another one that we take on the go for restaurants... I'm so sure this has to be a power struggle... but it's hard to know if it's that or it's a development issue. Yet, he is 4.5... but he is "young" for his age... he is not in preschool, has not been in day care... he is with me 24/7. Potty training was so easy... and I really think what helped there was "wanting to be like Daddy"... but that hasn't carried over to the poop side... I ask J why he poops in his pants and I get the "I don't know... because you yell at me..." *sigh* if you didn't poop, I wouldn't have anything to yell at you for... So - as frustrating as it is - I'm trying NOT to yell about it... see if that works.

Oh - how I need a vacation away... SSD needs a weekend meet and great! family optional... lol

[LenaGardner]

We had this issue too, with Parker. His "thing" once potty trained was instead of going 2x a day like he always had, he just didn't go for 2 days and then went in his pants at naptime or bedtime. I don't believe in pull ups and he refused to wear his diaper so there was always quite the mess. I was at a loss because I never had the issue with the other two. We found a solution that works amazingly for us, and I wanted to share it. Parts of it have been mentioned here already, but a few facets of it haven't been mentioned and they might help.

Let me start by saying...we tried the whole, sit on the potty till you go thing...that didn't work for us on its own. Now, I don't like potty chairs. I'm all about using the big potty from the get-go. So that's another part of it.

First, we identified when he went every day. We determined he went at naptime (noon) and bedtime (seven).

Second, we chose a reward and made it visual. We bought "potty candy" and put them in a basket, and nailed the basket directly to the wall high up right across from the toilet. High enough he couldn't reach it but low enough he could see the basket full of candy while he was sitting on the toilet. We hoped that he would see it while sitting there and be encouraged to follow through.

Third, we gave him privacy. It was probably the most important part of the potty process. After sitting in the bathroom with him for two hours one day and him refusing to go then me giving up and him going in his pants immediately, I realized he was really wanting privacy (who wouldn't?).

So since he was going at noon and seven, we started sitting him on the toilet at 11:30 and 6:30. We don't ask him if he has to go, we just started telling him, "Okay, it's potty time, let's go." We take him to the potty, remind him he will get candy when he is done going potty, and tell him to holler if he needs anything. Then we pull the door to and he hollers for us within 5 minutes.

The first day we tried it, it worked. And then follows the fourth facet of my plan. The very next day after he successfully went on the potty, I went for a lunch date at potty time. Pottying at home is easy, but as soon as I realized he "got it" at home, I wanted to continue to challenge him to make progress. So we went to Chik-Fil-A, I put him in the playplace and I studied him. I watched him start tugging at his pants and acting differently and I immediately took him to the potty, put him on the toilet, and stepped outside the stall. He went in that potty too!

Now I don't have an issue at all and the accidents have stopped! I can't describe the relief we felt!

(((hugs))) I know how hard this is. It's one of the most frustrating things I ever experienced as a parent. Keep us updated!

[sprauncey1]

We gave DS privacy too. And had the reward thing, but honestly for him he could care less. EVERY kid is different and what method is magical for one is not at a bit of difference for another. That is the frustrating thing!!! We literally had tried all the "tricks" and none of them worked. I also would not let mine play on the computer until he was a big boy. This seemed to motivate him some, but not enough to make him "want" to go.

Make a plan, and stick with it for a while. Be consistent and take a break. Maybe DH can take a turn or two this weekend since he wanted to be "like Daddy". Mine loves to read on the toilet so that is why we let Kyle read books on the toilet (like Daddy). Sigh. This too shall pass! I promise!!!

[scrapweaver]

We had exactly the same problem with my daughter, and same age too. I was starting to worry about her maybe having wearing nappies to school the next year! She would only poop in a nappy, and would go DAYS if I didnt put one on her, which of course freaked me out. The chemist suggested the poopy medicine, but she would still not go on the toilet. We ended up going to the doctor, who suggested . . a STAR CHART!! I though "oh, WHATever" . . but . . it actually worked! She didnt like the chart, but we used to buy pretty flash looking sparkly stars and she was allowed to choose one if she went on the toilet. She would stick them on her hand.

So basic, but it worked . . I sooo sympathise with what you're going through, its so frustrating. {{HUGS}}

[DawnMarch]

This program is a little more extreme because it relies on a bottom up approach (starting with potty sits and proceeding to suppositories and enemas if all else fails) but it sets a "protocol" that trains kids who "hold" to go in the potty. It works like magic for some kids.

http://www.soilingsolutions.com/

[nun69]

omg...Peyotn took FOREVER to poop in the toliet and he is 4.5 now. He finally got it by using a few of hte things Lena said

PRIVACY was a really big thing for him!!! H egoes to whatever toliet is the farthest away from everybody else to go {we have 3 bathrooms}!

Rewards...we FINALLY figured out the reward that worked for him was getting to play a Video Game {Mario Kart}...so we flat out just stopped letting him play AT ALL and told him once he went to poop in the toliet he could play Mario. He got it and everytime he DID go, he got to play mario!

He would even hold it all day at daycare and then poop in his pants when he got home And the 1st day he pooped at daycare he asked my daycare provider could he play Mario Kart Since she didn't haveit, she gave him a little computer game time and from then on, he hasn't really had any issues...

so BIG HUGS, cause I know the frustration

[kristijoy]

Originally Posted by heathergw

have you tried just having him be naked all day or until he goes?

This is what worked for my kid.

[MamaBee]

I hope I don't jinx it... we had a mini success - for some reason, today he went... I think it was because I was using the Roku box to watch SisterWives off Netflix and Jake also uses the Roku box to watch Shaun the Sheep... since we have been in the battle of wills, we told Jake he couldn't watch anymore Shaun the Sheep until he went into the toilet... so I think he REALLY wanted to use the Roku box again... he also wanted the little red car as a reward (we have the Car2 diecast cars taped to the wall in the bathroom as a incentive... that had worked for potty - but wasn't doing anything for the poo time)... I hope we getting over the hurdle? I should have taken him to Fleet Farm to get a wagon for his toy John Deer ATV... but I just didn't have the time today - and he forgot about our deal from yesterday...

[nun69]

that sounds great! let us know how it goes!

[scrapweaver]

Originally Posted by MamaBee

I hope I don't jinx it... we had a mini success - for some reason, today he went... I think it was because I was using the Roku box to watch SisterWives off Netflix and Jake also uses the Roku box to watch Shaun the Sheep... since we have been in the battle of wills, we told Jake he couldn't watch anymore Shaun the Sheep until he went into the toilet... so I think he REALLY wanted to use the Roku box again... he also wanted the little red car as a reward (we have the Car2 diecast cars taped to the wall in the bathroom as a incentive... that had worked for potty - but wasn't doing anything for the poo time)... I hope we getting over the hurdle? I should have taken him to Fleet Farm to get a wagon for his toy John Deer ATV... but I just didn't have the time today - and he forgot about our deal from yesterday...

Yaay!! fingers crossed he gets the hang of it