NSBR: So let's say you do a little photography...

[yari]

So let's say you do a little photography just for fun, you've learned lots, and you enjoy the whole process. And let's say that you do free photo shoots to get the experience. Then people (your friends) start telling you that you should actually charge $$. But... what if you feel like you are not quite there yet, as in being good enough to actually charge? Sure, you take some neat photographs (compared to the average Joe) but you know your stuff is not as awesome as some of the stuff you see some other photographers do (and yet it is more awesome than what some other self-proclaimed photographers do). What do you do? Do you charge people? I ask this because I do this for friends and family here locally and it is very time consuming researching a location, poses, getting to the location (getting a babysitter for my kids while I am gone, which costs money), post editing the photos and then burning them on a DVD and presenting the photos in beautiful packaging (all out of my expense). Should I charge for the bare minimum? I like photography a whole lot, and I even love the editing part more than anything else, however I don't think I see it as something that I want to turn into a career, I want to have fun with it, but the personal time and money consumption that's coming out of it out of my own pocket is kind of killing me. Any advice? I know there's lots of awesome amateur photographers and photography enthusiasts here... ;)

[Lyd]

I have noooo experience with this, so take my words with a grain of salt, but . . .

I don't think there's anything wrong with charging. Just charge less than those people who are really awesome and have built a big business. If you're spending a lot of time researching locations, doing the actual shoot, editing photos, putting DVDs together, etc, there's nothing wrong with asking to be reimbursed for your time and talent. You don't have to make it your career to be paid for the service you provide.

[carrie1977]

I agree with Lydia!

[Milmomma]

I believe, even though you are not looking to make it a full time job does not mean you should be fronting all of this out of pocket. Charging them 25-50$ to cover your costs won't hurt anything. It is not like you are asking hundreds of dollars. :)

[*Celeste*]

i would definitely charge them for the babysitter at the very least! just charge less than the pros would!

[yari]

Alright, thank you! Sounds good. Sometimes you need to see others' insight to know that you are not crazy and to actually give yourself permission to do something. :)

[KristinCB]

yes I think you should charge and I think it might be a smart idea to set up some sort of contract as well so that you aren't taken advantage of unknowingly later on kwim? Perhaps have something written in there that you could use the images for your portfolio if you decide to go any further with it :)

[yari]

Great idea Kristin! Thanks! I know there's some photographers that offer freebies for other designers and one of those freebies I have seen are contracts, I just have yet to download one and read through it. But that's a great idea. The tricky part now for me is how much $$ to charge for both parties to feel like it's fair.

[jessica31876]

I think if the person is willing to pay they why not charge. You are not claiming to give them award winning photos just to capture their memories in an attractive way. Heck before I discovered digi-scrapping and practicing taking photos with my own family I paid the big studios (Olan Mills mostly) several hundred dollars for a package. Yea it came with a couple poses but not even close to the quality of an actual photographer.

[navaja77]

I would charge, even if it's friends and family. I am learning photography as well and have a little more insight into custom photography. I don't plan at all to go into business but it still pays to at least learn some things.

For photographers that are just getting into the business - they usually are in the portfolio building stage. The prices that I've seen that are reasonable are $75 session fee (to cover your gas, babysitting fees, time to be there, deposit, etc.) with 1-2 digital files (with print release) and maybe print credit. I would NOT offer a whole CD of images because that's alot of images to edit and then just give away. Definitely set up a contract that covers you (and watermark your images!).

I would highly recommend Clickin Moms - they have alot of advice if you plan to do photography as a business (even if it's on the side). I have learned so much from them.

[YepBrook]

I have a friend who is the same as you... started out small and gave us a free shoot. The second time she gave us a discounted rate, and last year she charged us full price. I have no problem at all paying full price. I feel like one freebie shoot per family is good when you're starting out. If gives you experience with different types of families, locations, and potential challenges. Maybe you can hand them a "coupon" for their next shoot 50% off? Ease into it. These friends you're giving freebies to will become some of your best marketing tools... they will spread the word to their friends who will become paying customers. :)

ETA: Forgot to mention that my friend still continues to give us a disk of about 25 images that she edits and mails to us promptly. I can print them anywhere as much as I want or use them on my scrapbook pages. I know she doesn't do this for everyone! So, having a friend with a particular talent is a nice thing. I never abuse that, though. I know there are some people who will suck you dry if you have some skill or talent they want to benefit from. So, deal with it on a case-by-case basis.

[taracotta7]

I have no interest in going professional at all BUT I don't want us gals to sell ourselves short and get taken advantage of either. I know around here.........an on location session for an hour cost a setting fee of $150 min. That doesn't include prints/cd/nothing. SO I think you can easily cover your cost and it still be a great deal for the "client". I think anywhere from $100-150 would be fair if you gave them a cd with their images. I would also do what is suggested above and tell them that your images will be used as your portfolio building and may be used in the future. I also made up a generic print release form to save them the hassle when they go to print. I just googled it, copy and pasted.

[MamaBee]

I have two examples on this... :) I personally, would expect to pay something... having photos done is expensive and to have someone you know taking your photo is worth a small fee, in my book. I don't feel comfortable with someone I don't know taking my photos... haha.

When kiddo was born (so that is now going on 6 years ago), a friend of my hubby's was just starting out in photography... so, she charged us $50 sitting fee and sent us a CD of all the photos, some edited to be black and white, etc. Plus there was a slip that we signed asking if we were okay if she would use the photos for advertising. Then when we went back for Jake's 6 mon photos, the same deal... $50

The second example is with my SIL... a the photographer who is also starting out and did SIL's boyfriend's sister's wedding (if you can follow that chain)... asked for my SIL and her boyfriend would poise for her at the local train museum... the photographer paid for everything... paid for Oskana's hair to be done and for her shoes (which Oksana then bought off her), paid for the rental fee of the dress and on location... and then paid for dinner at the end, plus gave Oksana digi copies to print/share on facebook... and I think also gave Oksana and Bryan a talent fee. Now, this I can see not charging... this is a total business expense for her and she is trying to get into niche wedding photography (the photos were very 1930's gangster feel - they were very cool).

So, not sure if that helped or not... :)

[MandaT]

I'm going to answer from a pro-photog's point of view.

Charge. Charge them enough to cover your time and talent.
When you think about your time don't forget to include shooting time, planning time, editing time afterwards, scouting new locations, time you're putting into learning, researching techniques/contracts/ etc.Include enough to cover your cost of any actions, enough to put away in case your camera/cards/camera breaks/needs replaced or repaired.

My job is a photographer, it's how I contribute to our family income. There are about 40 (maybe that's a slight exageration) other ''photographers'' in our area of about 10,000, only 10 (or at least that's about the right ratio) of us charge what we should be getting paid, I'm on the higher end of the spectrum (my session fee is $125, no disc or prints), and I'm okay with that. Those other 30 are charging $25-$65 per session with 100+ images on a disc, 'copyright release'

I've had inquiries who literally said to me, "I went to XX photographer and got a butt load of pics on a CD and I can do what I want for less than what you charge just for your session". I'm taking time from my family to do a 'job' for someone else. Time is a precious commodity.

I'm not saying you should charge what pro's charge, but charge what you are worth. I'm a mom of 3 and time to me, is super important part of the deal.

I would say at least charge $100. (that's about $10 per hour if you break it down into how much time you spend on a session).

[scrapmommaof3]

I'm going to answer from a pro-photog's point of view.

Charge. Charge them enough to cover your time and talent.
When you think about your time don't forget to include shooting time, planning time, editing time afterwards, scouting new locations, time you're putting into learning, researching techniques/contracts/ etc.Include enough to cover your cost of any actions, enough to put away in case your camera/cards/camera breaks/needs replaced or repaired.

My job is a photographer, it's how I contribute to our family income. There are about 40 (maybe that's a slight exageration) other ''photographers'' in our area of about 10,000, only 10 (or at least that's about the right ratio) of us charge what we should be getting paid, I'm on the higher end of the spectrum (my session fee is $125, no disc or prints), and I'm okay with that. Those other 30 are charging $25-$65 per session with 100+ images on a disc, 'copyright release'

I've had inquiries who literally said to me, "I went to XX photographer and got a butt load of pics on a CD and I can do what I want for less than what you charge just for your session". I'm taking time from my family to do a 'job' for someone else. Time is a precious commodity.

I'm not saying you should charge what pro's charge, but charge what you are worth. I'm a mom of 3 and time to me, is super important part of the deal.

I would say at least charge $100. (that's about $10 per hour if you break it down into how much time you spend on a session).

I agree with Amanda.
Also, if you make more than a certain amount (different in different states) you are going to have to report it. I am sure you already know about the business side since you are a designer, but it is something to think about.

[yari]

Oh boy that's a whole lot to take in and think about. Man. I think I'm in trouble then. :/ I just posted this on my photography FB page. It's better than getting $0 like I was before and actually losing money on expenses that came out of my own pocket. I just have this huge fear that people think I'm in it just for the profit and what not and that I am cheating people. :/

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/553063_348818435226158_266627749_n.png

[yari]

Oh poopy pants... now I feel like crud. LOL

[iScrap]

One of my sisters is a photographer and I asked her what she thought and she agreed 100% with Amanda and the other ladies here - charge!

I don't even expect free photos from my own sister if she does a professional shoot. We always do some sort of exchange so whatever costs she eats giving me "free" photos, I eat doing something for her. I know these things cost money and take a lot of time. I couldn't take them from her without doing something for her in return.

You take great photos, Yari! They are worth it.

[YepBrook]

Yari... aw! Sorry you feel like crud! :(

If you don't mind me asking are these new people asking/expecting free sessions? Or are these the same friends/family repeatedly coming back for more photos?

[yari]

You girls have given me lots of awesome advice. THank you!

The reason why I feel a little cruddy is only cause now I think that maybe I went too low on the fee. :/

Brook, this would apply to anyone asking for my services. Like, if they are willing to do some sort of a trade, I'm all for it, but in reality, I don't think a trade will cover how much it actually takes to do this for someone, because as Amanda said, time is valuable and holy cow, photography takes a lot of time, more than people realize.

[MandaT]

Awe, sorry you feel like that. You really shouldn't. You have to do what works best for you. You can always change it again in a month or 3. :)

[farrijc]

I think you were vague enough to basically use whatever number you want... For example, $15 per hour of your time that you spent taking the pics and editing, or $50 for the session and a certain number of images, kwim? Or a flat fee that is higher and covers everything :thumbup:

[yari]

Thank you Amanda and Jill! :)

[Shawna]

I totally agree with Amanda, charge and charge more than enough to cover your time and expenses (and there are a lot). Otherwise you might as well be paying them to take their photos! And really who wants to do that?

This will be my third year in business and honestly it is a LOT of work to do it for so little. When I first decided I was interested in starting my photography business I joined Clickin' Moms and I did months and months of research so that I had all my ducks in a row legal business-wise before I ever started putting it out there that I was portfolio building and taking any money for sessions. I had to sign up for a tax ID with the IRS, a sales tax permit with my state (here in KS photographers have to charge sales tax on everything - session, CD, prints etc), have a system for keeping track of income & expenses, had my logo, domain & hosting, designed my blogsite, setup my Facebook page, professionally calibrated my monitor, made sure I had an online backup plan in place. I had client agreements and model releases for clients to sign, had my beginning pricing all set up and then offered a percentage off while portfolio building so clients knew that my prices would not stay so inexpensive etc. Those first few months after I was officially in business I spent hours and hours doing business related things and it did take a lot of time away from my family. I also spent more than I made, but I've learned SO much along the way and have changed things here and there pricing wise etc. and I really do love it but it is still a lot of work even now. So I think it's a good idea to do lots of research before jumping into being in business :)

[Sarah8914]

I agree with Jill! It's vague enough that it's okay.

We had family pics done a few months ago with a photographer I have been watching for a year or so. I think she is extremely talented. She advertised mini sessions of 30 minutes for $70... with a minimum of 10 photos. She told a friend it would probably be more than 10, but that 10 were guaranteed. That was for 4 people I think (maybe 5) and we have 6... so we added $15 and 15 minutes. She ended up giving us nearly 30 photos and I am so grateful for all she did.

I think mini sessions are getting more popular and that helps you have a time limit and limit to the photos you give.

You should know though, that I am super cheap and even if you are the best photographer in the world and really and truly deserve that money, I will not pay more than $100 (including a CD with several pics). But there are plenty that would.

I also think that if this keeps you busy and still not fair enough to you, that you could definitely change it every 2-3 months. I had another friend do that as she built her business. She let us all know the plan and let everyone know there was a month left at XX price before going up.

[yari]

I totally agree with Amanda, charge and charge more than enough to cover your time and expenses (and there are a lot). Otherwise you might as well be paying them to take their photos! And really who wants to do that?

This will be my third year in business and honestly it is a LOT of work to do it for so little. When I first decided I was interested in starting my photography business I joined Clickin' Moms and I did months and months of research so that I had all my ducks in a row legal business-wise before I ever started putting it out there that I was portfolio building and taking any money for sessions. I had to sign up for a tax ID with the IRS, a sales tax permit with my state (here in KS photographers have to charge sales tax on everything - session, CD, prints etc), have a system for keeping track of income & expenses, had my logo, domain & hosting, designed my blogsite, setup my Facebook page, professionally calibrated my monitor, made sure I had an online backup plan in place. I had client agreements and model releases for clients to sign, had my beginning pricing all set up and then offered a percentage off while portfolio building so clients knew that my prices would not stay so inexpensive etc. Those first few months after I was officially in business I spent hours and hours doing business related things and it did take a lot of time away from my family. I also spent more than I made, but I've learned SO much along the way and have changed things here and there pricing wise etc. and I really do love it but it is still a lot of work even now. So I think it's a good idea to do lots of research before jumping into being in business :)

Goodness gracious Shawna, that sounds so extensive. Wow, I'm a little floored by all that you did. The thing for me is that I am mainly doing it as a favor, not for business, and as a favor, I don't want to have to put out anything out of pocket.

[yari]

I agree with Jill! It's vague enough that it's okay.

We had family pics done a few months ago with a photographer I have been watching for a year or so. I think she is extremely talented. She advertised mini sessions of 30 minutes for $70... with a minimum of 10 photos. She told a friend it would probably be more than 10, but that 10 were guaranteed. That was for 4 people I think (maybe 5) and we have 6... so we added $15 and 15 minutes. She ended up giving us nearly 30 photos and I am so grateful for all she did.

I think mini sessions are getting more popular and that helps you have a time limit and limit to the photos you give.

You should know though, that I am super cheap and even if you are the best photographer in the world and really and truly deserve that money, I will not pay more than $100 (including a CD with several pics). But there are plenty that would.

I also think that if this keeps you busy and still not fair enough to you, that you could definitely change it every 2-3 months. I had another friend do that as she built her business. She let us all know the plan and let everyone know there was a month left at XX price before going up.

Sarah you definitely got a great deal there!

[nun69]

I agree with Amanda and even though I don't do anything professional, I did have a local pro photographer to help me start getting on the right track.....

the 1st thing I did was get my business license....only cost me $60 and it kinda shows you are legit.....

then I kinda of set myself up with some goals (still working on those)

got a website (even though I hardly use it at all)

then I did some price comparisons with other local photogrpahers (and came up with an idea of what I wanted to charge)

you should definetely make it worth your time by at least recouping the cost of prints, time and babysitting fees (at the least)

my local photographer said you should always charge "something" that way people don't come back and say "well last time you did it for free)...she told me to make a pricelist and then say "right now, everything is at a 50% discount" (or however you want it to say)...so even though you are recouping your money, they are still getting a great deal :)

good luck:thumbup:, it was way too much time and effort for me right now, but one day I hope to do this (at least partially )

[Shawna]

Goodness gracious Shawna, that sounds so extensive. Wow, I'm a little floored by all that you did. The thing for me is that I am mainly doing it as a favor, not for business, and as a favor, I don't want to have to put out anything out of pocket.

Yes it was a lot. but it was highly important for me to be a legally setup business in my city/state as soon as I started taking any amount of money for photography. We have a TON of photographers in my area (of all price levels and skill sets) and I know so many of the ones charging next to nothing for their time and a CD are likely not operating legally and I knew from the start that I wouldn't run my business in that manner.

Good luck with whatever you decide :)

[YepBrook]

Maybe you can do a single day where you schedule mini sessions in a single location. That will save you time & location planning. And only a single day for the kids to be watched. Charge everyone a flat fee for x amount of photos that they'll get on a CD. Maybe do this mini session day 3 times a year and that might cut down on the stress. :)

I have a couple pro photographer friends, but the one I adore in particular does lots of these mini session days often and they are a huge success. By the way, I paid her $200 for a 1 hour photo session for 7 people and got about 25 images on a CD. Maybe I am cheap, but I wouldn't be using a paid photographer at all if she hadn't taken photos of us once as a favor. I would be setting up the tripod or having my mom take a pic of us. The time she took our photos for free she brought her kids with her and met us at the park in her neighborhood. I know she didn't have to go through much trouble for us. Anyways... she got a paying customer out of me! ;) Now her business is thriving, and she makes plenty of money.

I guess I understand what everyone is saying... Technically you can charge, you should charge... But I have to say its nice to be a friend sometimes and take someone's photos for them. Or, if you're too busy and it's not convenient say no if they're not the type who are looking to hire someone.

[Sarah8914]

Oh, I agree with brook too!

Our last photographer did our first pics for free and I paid her extra after that. She tried not to take it but it was sooooooooo worth it to me. (she doesn't do it much anymore or we would probably still use her).