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Old 06-29-2011, 12:37 AM
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Unhappy Anyone refused at a lab? Copyright issues?

I made some birthday tags on 4x6's and had them sent to Walgreens. I was refused at pick up. They claimed copyright issues. I tried to explain that I purchased kits and had license to create things for my personal use. They said, that I could print them on my own printer, but it was illegal for THEM to print them. Anyone run into this? This isn't true is it?

In terms of use it says,

"YOU MAY: use our designs for your own scrapbook pages and projects, including hybrid works or paper scrapping."

..but it doesn't go into specifics about printing or any limitations concerning labs.

help.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:44 AM
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Oh gosh, I've never heard of that. I've had lots of things printed from other designers and have never run into anything like that. I'd suggest, for this time, contacting the designer who's product you used to get a release of some kind. In the future, I think I'd find a different lab. So sorry you're dealing with that!
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:51 AM
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yea I printed my daughter graduation announcements which I made and had no issues. I would think it was within the TOU of the designer since it is for your personal use and you are not profiting from it. Also printed christmas cards with stuff I made from scrapbooking supplies. Im pretty sure most people who make their own cards in the digi community print them at a store.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:18 AM
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They've asked me a couple times on prints and I just say i made it in photoshop and they dont' give me any problems.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:21 AM
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I've had a lot of things printed and i've never heard anything like this !
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:24 AM
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Nope I have never had a problem printing anything.
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:27 AM
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I had to sign a professional license and a photographer's license at Walmart before they would release some of my layouts to me. They actually thought my photos looked too good to be my own. Now when I go in I just tell them I have a release on file and they just hand them over. If you have that problem again, I'd ask to speak to the manager and tell them you are proficient at photoshop and it is your own work. Sign a release if they need that. Take it as a compliment-- your work must look wonderful!
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:49 PM
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That happened to my sister just yesterday!!! Oh wait a minute.....
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Old 06-29-2011, 02:55 PM
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YES!!! So many times I've lost count! When I was in scrapping for others I would get this all the time for those pimple popping kids behind the counter. After a lot of discussion I will get my photos... I don't tell them that I purchased anything anywhere --- I AM the designer and the photographer... then I have no problems getting my photos. If all else fails - go to the store manager. I've even had problem with doing photo shoots of my sons and printing out at Walgreens...

Good Luck.
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Old 06-29-2011, 04:28 PM
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I had that problem at Wal-Mart and Walgreens. I took my daughter's senior pics myself and they wouldn't give them to me because they looked "professional" which was a nice compliment in hindsight, but at the time I wanted to wring their necks.

Give them hell and talk to a manager!
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Old 06-29-2011, 07:39 PM
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Yeah, I have had it happen before, too. I just tell them I did it and have gotten the prints back. Annoying for sure.
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Old 06-29-2011, 07:51 PM
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i think it's ridiculous. i can understand when they're professional photos. but layouts? or cards?

my mother had an issue having my brother's graduation announcements printed. i didn't use any kits or anything, i designed them myself (they were an extra-credit typography project last semester). and the people at target were like, "sorry. we can't print these without a release". and she called me (i was in class), and i had to explain that they were created by me.

and that is why i have an account with WHCC now. to prevent issues.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:08 PM
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Boo Walgreens. I had problems with them NEVER having my one hour prints from Shutterfly done in an hour (back in the day before they used Target). We are talking days later. I try to not need photos right now and get everything from Persnickety.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:17 PM
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I never print anything at Walgreen's (or Walmart for that matter), everything I've ever had printed there turns out bad. I have a pro lab that I use now but I usually recommend Mpix, AdoramaPix or Persnickety since the quality is much better.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjersti View Post
That happened to my sister just yesterday!!! Oh wait a minute.....
what? Are you sisters?!?! I had no idea!
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
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what? Are you sisters?!?! I had no idea!
Yes! She's my sister!!! I think I need to enlist some SSD help on getting her scrapping again. She's an amazing scrapper
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
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what? Are you sisters?!?! I had no idea!
:: GASP! :: I didn't know that!
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
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Yes! She's my sister!!! I think I need to enlist some SSD help on getting her scrapping again. She's an amazing scrapper
How fun!! I agree, she is.
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:22 AM
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Yeah I have had this problem I asked to speak to a manager and they told me the same that I could print them as much as I wanted at home but they could not print them for me as by them printing them it wouldn't fall under the "personal use" terms. I totally did not understand that and ended up bringing in the TOU for the kit I was using and also mentioning that I did it in photoshop and gave the email address and site of the designer I used. I think by giving them all the information they realised that they would have to do extra work so just gave up and handed me over my prints lol

I didn't go back to that place again. I also would recomend Persnickity I have gotten prints form them and they are clear and amazing.

Star x
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:32 AM
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I have never had it happen when I have made cards or scrapbook pages but I get it ALL the time when I print actual prints of the boys. I get the whole speech about copyright and then I tell them to look in their files. I had to fill something out saying I took the pictures...blah, blah, blah....it gets old after a while. Most of the workers at Costco know me now but there are a few that don't. There was one time I had gone to pick up Jason's birthday pictures that I took and found out they SHREDDED them b/c of copyright issues...I had to show them on my camera that I took them and then really haven't had any issues since!!
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:43 AM
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I don't want it to sound critical (because, well, it's just a cultural difference), but this can only happen in the US. :-) What do they care about copyright and have to play the police? Even if you'd be breaking copyright (and you aren't), it's up to the copyright holder to make steps, LOL. I know it sound horrid from me, but honestly copyright issues are seriously out of hand in the US. :-)
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Old 06-30-2011, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianka View Post
I don't want it to sound critical (because, well, it's just a cultural difference), but this can only happen in the US. :-) What do they care about copyright and have to play the police? Even if you'd be breaking copyright (and you aren't), it's up to the copyright holder to make steps, LOL. I know it sound horrid from me, but honestly copyright issues are seriously out of hand in the US. :-)
They do it to protect themselves. If the copyright holder were to find out, and enforce it, then the store could be in trouble for allowing people to print it there... as in, they could get sued a LOT more than the individual consumer could, just for letting it happen.

Not that it's okay, because it's not, but it's just kind of how it happens...
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:16 PM
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They do it to protect themselves. If the copyright holder were to find out, and enforce it, then the store could be in trouble for allowing people to print it there... as in, they could get sued a LOT more than the individual consumer could, just for letting it happen.

Not that it's okay, because it's not, but it's just kind of how it happens...
I can understand. I'm also sure the guys in the lab just follow some rules given by their employer.

It truly is something new to me. This kind of over-protection doesn't happen over here. Nobody sues ordinary people over copyright. If they do, I don't know about it. Still I'm 100% sure that copyright issues are handled / regarded very much differently in Europe. To take them over-seriously is an American thing. And to expect a lab to play police is plain ridiculous in my view... It's not a criticism, you know, things are the way they are, I'm pretty sure that many European things must seem totally off to you! It's just that I'm fascinated by the fact that you take pictures / make scrapbook pages and the store won't allow you to print them or even go as far as to shred them. That said, I suspect this is more an exception as a rule, and maybe it happens only with this particular lab.
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:38 PM
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I had a poster printed @ Walgreens from one of Rachel's dance portraits, and the guy behind the counter actually did ask for the print release, which I had in my purse. The photographer was a friend of mine, and for her sake, I'm glad they asked for it.
I've never had problems with layouts, etc being printed...someone asked me about them once (in Staples I think), and when I told her I made them all in Photoshop, she said, "cool" and handed them all over to me.
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:33 PM
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Still I'm 100% sure that copyright issues are handled / regarded very much differently in Europe.
You're absolutely right. My sister has taken professional portraits in (in Germany) and gotten them scanned and printed without a question. If I were to do that here, I'd be in violation of a lot of laws if I didn't have that license with me. It's just not as big of a deal over there... that's why my sister was floored when, once we got family photos over here while she and my other German brother were here, and we spent over $500 to make sure everyone had enough prints or each photo we selected (we got fewer poses because we wanted to be able to order more duplicates of a certain pose)... she said "Why? I can buy one of each and then go make a copy!" It's just not like that here.
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Old 07-01-2011, 03:34 AM
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You're absolutely right. My sister has taken professional portraits in (in Germany) and gotten them scanned and printed without a question. If I were to do that here, I'd be in violation of a lot of laws if I didn't have that license with me. It's just not as big of a deal over there... that's why my sister was floored when, once we got family photos over here while she and my other German brother were here, and we spent over $500 to make sure everyone had enough prints or each photo we selected (we got fewer poses because we wanted to be able to order more duplicates of a certain pose)... she said "Why? I can buy one of each and then go make a copy!" It's just not like that here.
Oh yes. I can't see this to be a problem here, neither in Slovakia, nor in Lux. I admit I don't know about professional photo shoots, but I'm almost sure that with photographers I know you pay your fee and that's it, you can print as much as you want to. Of course people I know are not the "grand names" on the photography scene even though they're good photographers, and with more famous names you might get into the same kind of thing as in the US. No idea.

With the fashion photo shoot I did this week we signed a contract that prevents me or the photographer to sell any of the pictures without the other giving consent to it, but that was about it. I can do whatever I want with them otherwise, for personal use. But I didn't pay for the photos, we just split costs for renting the studio, so it's not like the typical example.

I think copyright protection is the right thing, but sometimes it gets out of hand and is totally contra-productive - actually no longer serves to protect anybody and just bullies the customer. Some cases mentioned in this thread are a perfect example of it. But there's hardly anything you can do about it, that's clear. Rules are rules, even if they are stupid rules.

IMHO serious copyright protection should be applied with commercial use, with personal use it just seems overblown, but of course that's just me.
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Old 07-01-2011, 06:16 AM
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IMHO serious copyright protection should be applied with commercial use, with personal use it just seems overblown, but of course that's just me.
Totally agree!
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Old 07-01-2011, 08:32 AM
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Yes the labs are protecting themselves because (some) people are dishonest and even though they sign an agreement with the photographer to not make copies, they do. Some photographers have a huge sitting fee to make up for this, but for most they have a reasonable sitting/session fee and make their money (pay for their time) on the prints. This is a big thing in the photography circles because most photographers per hour (taking, editing, posting, etc) don't make that much. And if it isn't worth their time anymore, they will quit. Then we are just left with the starting outs and the shoot and burners.

Its no less strict than if the store refused to burn a copy of a CD of kits from here. Yes you can do it at home, but if they did it I bet the designers here would be all up in their face. KWIM? And I don't mean you should do it at home (it is still wrong at home) but when you involve a store you involve a third party in the act.

For digi scrapping prints, maybe we can get a print release from the designers to show the labs. Part of the TOU or something. I agree its aggravating, but I understand how it came about.

And while I agree the American system is overboard with frivolous lawsuits, copyright issues aren't always frivolous. Now Apple saying that no one can use a photo of an/any apple with their product...now that is ridiculous!
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Old 07-01-2011, 08:51 AM
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And while I agree the American system is overboard with frivolous lawsuits, copyright issues aren't always frivolous. Now Apple saying that no one can use a photo of an/any apple with their product...now that is ridiculous!
What you say makes perfect sense, still it's only 100% valid in your environment. We (and I think I can use plural, because that's what I get from everybody around me) really do feel differently about copyright here. Which doesn't mean I agree with anybody violating it - or violating any rules, when it comes to it. It simply means I don't get the US way of thinking in this matter (what is normal for you seems over the top for me, while you'd be honestly horrified what's done in most of Eastern Europe, let alone Russia or Ukraine), but not in a critical way, just in the sense of cultural wonderment. And I have to say I cherish SSD for cultural insights like these, I've never learned as much about the US as I did here - and it's always interesting and it sure helps to understand a lot of things that seem weird at the first glance. :-)

There are two sides to everything, so I can understand the copyright holders for wanting to protect their intellectual properties, it only sometimes happens that it gets extreme to the point of ridiculous (like the Apple example you mentioned) - but things like that happen when it comes to many issues and in many countries.

To illustrate the general feeling around me - I explained a friend of mine the problems described in this thread and he told he me feels tempted to get rights for the letter "a" and get 5 euros every time someone says a word containing it... :-) That's how absurd it seemed to him to have to prove you have a right to have a photo printed.
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Old 07-01-2011, 08:56 AM
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Yes the labs are protecting themselves because (some) people are dishonest and even though they sign an agreement with the photographer to not make copies, they do.
This explains a lot, because in my layman mind I'd think only the real copyright violator (i.e. the person who lets the photos be printed) would get into trouble. I'd expect the lab to act in "bona fide" and not having the obligation to check these things. So now I'm wiser!
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